What Was She Drinking? The Elaine Cottam Experience

Elaine Cottam, taking a break from giving evidence

It’s hard to know where to start with yesterday’s Inquiry hearing. Karl Flinders from Computer Weekly decided to cover yet another Post Office disclosure disaster. I am going to attempt to analyse the evidence which came courtesy of Elaine Cottam.

Ms Cottam was a former Post Office Retail Line Manager. She was called to give evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry to help try to work out what had happened in the Cleveleys case. Cleveleys Post Office was run in 2000 by a woman called Julie Wolstenholme who suffered problems with the Post Office Horizon system from the moment it was installed.

Instead of receiving help, she was sacked. By Elaine Cottam. Mrs Wolstenholme fought back. She kept possession of her Horizon terminal and suggested a proper examination of the hardware might reveal the source(s) of her problems. The Post Office had no interest in all that – but they did want their kit back, so in 2003 they took Mrs Wolstenholme to Blackpool County Court.

The case was resolved when a court-appointed technical expert – Jason Coyne – took a look at the available evidence and decided there were red flags all over the Horizon system. Desperate to keep this information out of the public domain, the Post Office settled the case with Mrs Wolstenholme. The Inquiry spent some time looking into the Cleveleys case earlier this year. For more detail, you can read and watch the evidence from Jason Coyne, Fujitsu and a Post Office lawyer on the Inquiry website by looking for the transcripts on 26 – 28 July 2023. But let’s, for now, focus on…

Elaine Cottam

In 2000, as a Post Office Retail Line Manager, Elaine Cottam had a role of some significance. The power to suspend someone – ie remove their livelihood – without warning, or having to give a reason, carries responsibility. It’s the sort of power which should only be exercised with a great degree of caution, by someone who has been properly trained with the capacity to understand the repercussions of their decisions.

Before a witness gives evidence to a public inquiry they are usually sent a bundle of relevant documents and asked a series of questions. The written answers to those questions form the basis of their witness statement, submitted to the inquiry before any oral evidence hearing.

It is a reasonable expectation that anyone asked to give a witness statement to a public inquiry would take it seriously. If called to give oral evidence, they might ask questions of the secretariat about what to expect, perhaps do some research and turn up as prepared as possible. After all, giving evidence under oath is not something to be taken lightly. Given there were three days of hearings directly related to the case Ms Cottam was involved in, natural curiosity might have at least suggested she watch or read some of it.

Elaine’s Evidence

Jason Beer KC

On Tuesday, after being sworn in, Elaine Cottam was asked questions by Jason Beer KC. Beer first of all wanted to know why, in response to the large number of documents and questions sent to her on 12 July this year, she had submitted a witness statement “two and a half pages long, which contains next to no information.”

“I don’t know what sort of information you wanted me to put in it”, replied Cottam.

Beer took her to the question which asked her to set out her professional background. In response to this, Cottam had written: “I was employed as a Retail Line Manager by Post Office Counters Limited – I do not remember the exact date I took up this post or the date that I left this post.”

Beer pointed out this contained no information about Cottam’s professional background. Cottam replied that this was a “misunderstanding”. Beer asked “between whom?”

Cottam replied: “Between myself and what I was asked for.”

In answer to another question, Cottam had put in her witness statement to the Inquiry that when a Retail Line Manager, she was responsible for 27 Post Office branches. Yet in a 2003 witness statement for the Post Office, she told a court she was responsible for 112 Post Offices. Cottam wasn’t sure when the number had changed and she couldn’t remember if she was responsible for 112 offices at the time of her 2003 witness statement. Beer wondered if the figure had been put into her witness statement in 2003, it was fair enough to assume it was true. Cottam said she couldn’t remember. Beer tried again:

“That’s not a question about memory; that’s asking if you made a sworn statement to the court, which said, “I am responsible for 112 post offices”, in 2003, that’s likely to be…”

“And what date was that? What date was that?” Cottam interrupted.

“16 October 2003, as I told you and as we looked”, replied Beer.

“I can’t remember”, replied Cottam again, apparently misunderstanding the question a second time.

Cottam did remember recruiting Julie Wolstenholme as Subpostmaster in 1999, when, due to ill-health, Julie’s father decided to retire. Cottam assessed Wolstenholme’s suitability, stating at the time: “I have no reason to doubt her honesty”.

Beer wanted to know how she went from this assessment to sacking her for dishonesty just over a year later. Cottam had an interesting take:

“I soon picked up on when I was going to the office – she worked very closely with her husband and he was heavily involved in the day-to-day running of the office. And that was not taken into consideration because I wasn’t aware that that was going to be the case when Julie was appointed.”

Beer was intrigued. “Why are you telling us this?”

“I think it’s relevant” replied Cottam.

“Are you hinting that you think he was the dishonest one, not her?” asked Beer.

“I’d rather not say”, said Cottam, suddenly all prim. She admitted to Beer she had “no proof at all” of any dishonesty or criminality on Julie’s husband’s part, either now or in 2000.

Can she be a witness?

Jason Beer started to explore more of Elaine Cottam’s 2003 witness statement. This became a difficult and protracted process as it transpired that Elaine Cottam not only had very little understanding of the information she had submitted in the witness statement she signed, but seemed to have absolutely no idea there had been a legal case against Julie Wolstenholme in the first place:

Cottam: “I didn’t know there was a civil court. The first I knew that there’d been a court case was when I got this bundle of documents.”
Beer: “You provided this witness statement to the civil court?”
Cottam: “I don’t remember doing that.”

Beer read out the following passage in Cottam’s 2003 witness statement:

“Mrs Wolstenholme persisted in telephoning the Horizon Helpdesk in relation to any problems which she had with the system and generally, these problems related to the use and general operation of the system and were not technical problems relating to the system. Copies of the call logs for the period 10 January 2000 to 30 November 2000 together with a brief analysis of the calls to the Horizon System Helpdesk which I prepared following Mrs Wolstenholme’s suspension are at pages [then you give some pages to an exhibit]. Whilst there were some problems at other branches, they were not insurmountable and were often due to the system crashing or were general teething problems.”

When asked about this sentence, Cottam said she didn’t remember asking for any call logs, didn’t remember receiving them and didn’t know why she needed them, because she wouldn’t understand them. She seemed utterly mystified at the idea she might be able to offer any analysis of them, and with the air of someone looking at hieroglyphics on a piece of wood, told the Inquiry:

“I don’t understand these. Don’t understand them. I don’t know what it’s saying, “Gateway is now stuck at 3%”. That means nothing to me.”

One thing she did spot was that Julie Wolstenholme’s husband had made some of the calls to the helpline, and on the call log had been classified as the Subpostmaster.

Cottam: “But he’s not the postmaster, is he?”
Beer: “What’s your point?”
Cottam: “Well, he doesn’t feature very heavily anywhere, does he? And yet his name’s on all these now.”
Beer: “What’s your point?
Cottam: “Well, it says, “Title: Postmaster”, and he wasn’t, was he?”
Beer: “What’s your point?”
Cottam (suddenly prim again): “Well… well, nothing. It doesn’t matter. “
Beer: “Is this the suspicion without proof issue raising its head again?”
Cottam: “I’m not going down that line at all.”
Beer: “I thought you just did.”

Beer managed to steer Cottam back to her “analysis” of the call logs and what they might mean. Cottam had been sent them in July this year but seemed to have no recollection of seeing them then, let alone 20 years ago. Then her brain seemed to melt down a little bit and she started crying.

Beer and the inquiry chair, Sir Wyn Williams, immediately stepped in and a fifteen minute break was agreed. Sir Wyn noted how “confused” Cottam appeared to be, and asked Beer where this was all going. It turned out Beer had evidence of Cottam calling the Horizon Helpline third line support to explain various software problems on behalf of Julie Wolstenholme from the Cleveleys branch, yet for some reason none of the calls that Cottam had made were included in her 2003 witness statement to the court. And her witness statement also stated the calls Julie Wolstenholme had made were “not technical problems relating to the system”.

After the break, Beer asked her about it:

Beer: “This is you calling in. Why would you be calling the Helpdesk?”
Cottam: “Because I would have been at the office trying to help them sort out whatever it was.”
Beer: “Why wouldn’t the subpostmaster call in?”
Cottam: “Well, she probably did.”
Beer: “No, she didn’t. You did.”
Cottam (unable to help herself): “Or he did. We were looking for some advice from somebody.”
Beer: “Sorry, did you say “or he did”?”
Cottam: “I don’t know, I can’t remember.”
Beer: “Was that slipping into the suspicion without proof thing again.”
Cottam: “Well, I wouldn’t like to say.”
Beer: “Well, but you just did.”

Despite her clear insinuation, which she admitted was based on no evidence whatsoever, that Julie Wolstenholme’s husband might have been responsible for dishonest behaviour in 2000, Cottam insisted her memory was a blank when it came to the very existence of her 2003 witness statement.

Ms Cottam in full flow

“Can you help us as to how it came about that there’s a witness statement to the Blackpool County Court in your name and signed by you as true, which says, “I prepared this analysis”?” asked Beer, after about five minutes of Cottam’s protestations.

“I don’t ever remember seeing it”, she replied. “I mean, it was a long time ago. I may well have done it but I really don’t, I just wouldn’t understand it.”

Beer tried to get Cottam to accept that her call to the Horizon Helpline’s third line support about a mysterious £100 adding itself to the Cleveleys branch balance when the weekly accounts were calculated was evidence of a software problem. Cottam wasn’t having it. Beer kept trying.

“That’s not Mrs Wolstenholme or Mr Harrison [Julie’s husband] adding something to the stock unit, somebody adding something. You’re telling the Helpdesk here that there’s a problem with the system, aren’t you? A stock unit has had something added to it.”

“Well, yeah”, replied a defensive Cottam. “How it was added to it is another matter.”

Beer gave up. But he had another point to make.

Enter Fujitsu

Following the trail of information about Cottam’s call all the way up the support line to Fujitsu, it transpired the problem Cottam was reporting was a known bug in the system. This was evidenced with some notes in the error log between Fujitsu engineers. Because it was a known bug, Fujitsu took the decision to close the call, without telling the Subpostmaster. Or apparently, Cottam:

Beer: “So you didn’t know about the known error log?”
Cottam: “No. Never heard of it.”
Beer: “There’s no record on here or indeed elsewhere of you or the Subpostmaster being told that a known error in the system occurred, which was affecting the balancing process? Do you see, there’s no record on this PinICL? [technical term for an error note]”
Cottam: “No, no, no, I didn’t know about it.”

Cottam accepted this would have been useful information. Beer went back to her 2003 witness statement. He wanted to know why this specific incident and the known error it revealed had not been included with the other call logs attached to the witness statement. There followed some of the most surreal gibberish I’ve ever heard from someone under oath. Here is an excerpt:

Cottam: “I will help you as much as I can but, really, I don’t understand where all this is coming from. Am I supposed to have written all this? I might well have signed it but I don’t remember all this.”
Beer: “Generally, when you write something to a court and say, “I believe the contents of this statement are true” and sign it with a pen underneath it, that indicates that you’ve written it. No?”
Cottam: “Well, when am I supposed to have signed this?”
Beer (wearily): “16 October 2003.”
Cottam: “I don’t remember it. I don’t remember it and the very first time I knew there’d been a court case about this was when this has just been raised again, when they sent me this bundle of papers. I didn’t even know there’d been a court case before that.”
Beer: “So you can’t help us why the call log recording you on two occasions assisting Mrs Wolstenholme, complaining about the service offered by the Horizon Helpdesk, about a balancing issue and the system adding sums on rollover was not included in the documents exhibited to your witness statement? You can’t help us there?”
Cottam: “No, no, I can’t see it.”
Beer: “Three weeks before she was suspended?”
Cottam: “Am I supposed to be looking at this now? Is this on here? I simply don’t understand what you’re asking now.”
Beer: “Well, I don’t understand what you’re asking me.”

Matters reached a head when Beer asked: “Do you think somebody has fabricated your signature on this witness statement?”

“Well”, said Cottam, “I don’t know if that’s the case or not but I didn’t know anything about the court case and I wasn’t called to the court case.”
Beer responded patiently: “As I said, it didn’t reach court because the Post Office settled.”
“Oh” replied Cottam. “But I didn’t know anything about it. You would have thought that they would have at least
approached me about it. They must have wanted some input from me at that stage.”

You would have thought, right? But maybe dealing with Elaine Cottam in 2003 was as difficult as it appears to be in 2023. So maybe they didn’t bother.

Beer tried one last time: “This is a 15-page witness statement signed by you.”
“No, this long… this statement of truth, yeah?” replied Cottam, as if she were seeing it for the first time.
Cottam paused. “I just don’t really understand what it is I’m supposed to be doing here, really. What… I haven’t got copies of the call logs, so… other than in this bundle… I don’t understand.”

It appears that Elaine Cottam genuinely didn’t know what a witness statement was, nor had she worked out what its purpose might be, even by the end of her inquiry session.

Beer’s questioning concluded shortly thereafter. He had, without being derailed, successfully demonstrated that Fujitsu had kept a serious software problem from a Subpostmaster who then lost money and subsequently her livelihood as a result of the callous ineptitude of Elaine Cottam and her colleagues at the Post Office. Having achieved this, it seems someone at the Post Office went on to produce a misleading witness statement supposedly authored by someone without the capacity or capability of being responsible for it.

You can watch the full car crash here. I recommend it.

The world is full of thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetents like Elaine Cottam. The problems start when they are promoted into positions of power, as the Post Office appears to have done with multiple idiots on multiple occasions. I really hope the Met Police are taking note.

UPDATE: More than one person has suggested to me in good faith that Elaine Cottam, in giving evidence to the Inquiry, might be displaying possible symptoms of early onset dementia. I have no idea if Elaine Cottam has the condition or has been diagnosed with anything of this nature. I have approached in the Inquiry to pass on the concerns of the people who contacted me, in the hope that Ms Cottam might, if she wants to, consider seeking medical advice.

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80 responses to “What Was She Drinking? The Elaine Cottam Experience”

  1. Bit late to seeing this one. I think i fall in the camp of deliberately deceiving the inquiry. While she tried to act confused she was very quick to notice the non postmasters name on the help desk documents. Making no comments on the multiple other names on them. Also on many other occasions she appeared lucid and at one point said she would have asked the help desk for information. then not 2 minutes later denied knowing what the document was she was looking at.
    Having had several family members with Alzheimer’s or dementia none of them behaved in the way she did.

    She had nothing to gain as her behaviour just made her look bad and clearly a fixed idea of who was to blame regardless of the evidence readily available.
    It was likely that others helped her prepare the witness statement back in 2003 but to deny all knowledge was pointless.

  2. One of the most frustrating things I’ve witnessed in a long time.

    In the twilight zone that was her trying to recall her position history, you might have missed that she retired at 50. 50!
    She is residing on a comfortable Post Office (tax payer) pension because she was in a management position for many years despite displaying incompetence in any number of core managerial skills not least of which is common sense.

    Saddened she was responsible and held such power over SPMs with this level of incompetence, bias and lack of empathy.

    Bear in mind that everything she is saying here, is with the benefit of hindsight – hindsight being EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS IT WAS HORIZON’S FAULT – she still is not making any correlation between what the SPM was struggling with and what she was personally witnessing at that branch. But anyway, it doesn’t matter because according to Mrs Cottam “there were other problems anyway.”

    Months and years of stress, pressure and heartache she caused SPMs and she crumbles after 12-minutes.

    1. Patrick Cullen avatar
      Patrick Cullen

      It’s bizarre how such morons got into the senior positions they did. Similarly Helen Rose. She seems to have had no formal qualifications in conducting fraud investigations, investigations or even the now discredited Horizon system. Yet she was auditing , investigating and writing reports on these topics. Completely staggering.

  3. Imagine how much better this story would have gone if Elaine had actually helped the people she managed with their Horizon issues, collecting issues, briefing up the chain, instead of playing along with the POs absurd fiction that it was fault-free.
    20 years later we see this humiliating under-oath testimony, or theatrical performance or whatever it was.

  4. I’ve just watched Elaine Cottam’s contemptuous performance …. Disgraceful !!!

    I felt for Mr Beer’s frustration, and admired his patience, however, I was extremely disappointed that the judge didn’t intervene earlier, having witnessed Cottam’s casual attitude to the seriousness of these proceedings (under oath ), that she was clearly in contempt of court, first, for ignoring instructions laid out in a letter sent months before she was due to appear, and her lack of interest in the pack of information she was sent that she clearly hadn’t looked at or bothered with. As for not recalling anything in her so called witness statement, which she went on to say was not written by her. ( At the start of the proceedings she confirmed was an honest and true statement signed by her ), Mr Beer pointed out that there was only two and a half pages with no real substance. This didn’t seem to bother her. ‘I don’t really know why I’m here’

    Clearly, the incompetence could be laid at the lawyers who briefed her for this performance, but they clearly underestimated her level of stupidity.
    I only hope that the inquiry ‘hardens up’ on these witnesses. After all, we’re dealing with possible corporate manslaughter, fraud, misleading and lying to parliament, conspiracy etc etc etc.

    Looking forward to the queen of the pulpit preach her way out of this.

  5. J B deserves a medal for being able to keep his cool under these circumstances – but at least got what was needed to show how utterly incompetent this “manager” was. Sir Wyn did say that it looked as though she had just signed a Witness Statement written by somebody else, and I’m sure this was true as she would not have been capable of writing it.
    Julie W deserves a medal too for not giving in to this – I wonder if she was watching.

  6. Carole Johnstone avatar
    Carole Johnstone

    Few days ago one of the barristers said ….. which is it are you incompetent or a liar ?

  7. Rachelle Fletcher avatar
    Rachelle Fletcher

    This ladies attitude above all memory and recollection – stinks

    This is a serious matter and she couldnt have appeared to care less.

    1. I fully agree-she couldn’t care less about anyone else but herself-it’s disgusting.

    2. Gaynor Evans avatar

      No prizes for guessing the advice she had received from her solicitor about how to handle questions!

    3. Carole Johnstone avatar
      Carole Johnstone

      I totally agree, I also thought her attitude was bad, she would not get away with that in court. I hope there are convictions over all this, those poor peoples lives who were ruined deserve it

  8. I really don’t feel that she has dementia. I believe she is flustered because she’s caught out. When it came to noticing the husband was on the call logs she was sharp as a knife. She’s a vindictive individual and full of her own self importance. Unfortunately people gain positions of power precisely because they lack independent critical thinking skills.

    1. Definitely playing the dementia card: “When it came to noticing the husband was on the call logs she was sharp as knife”, well spotted A Talbot. Then sneakily trying to put the husband in the frame to cover her backside. Jason Beer must have found it difficult to hide his disgust when questioning this horrid despicable individual.

  9. jonathan ansell avatar
    jonathan ansell

    i’m 20 mins in, she’s clearly early stages of dementure – i skipped through your article but hope you put this suggestion nearer the top. you’re better than this nick.

  10. Elaine Cottam may or may not have been representative of the type of person that POL chose to be recruited (“elevated”?) to a position of responsibility that would ultimately lead to flawed criminal and civil litigation. If she was, perhaps POL didn’t realise what they were doing, or, worse still, they did…..

    1. Steve, I once worked in the Post Office sorting office and the people I worked with were very nice. Unfortunately the Post Office did actually choose to promote, rightly referred to by Nick as thick-as-mince malevolent incompetents like Elaine Cottam. Nick’s comments certainly brought back memories of working on the facing table (sorting first and second class) and “thick-as-mince” heavies walking up and down behind us in case we’d steal one of the letters. We weren’t allowed to speak to each other or it would be, “Stop talking and get on with your work.” It was like being in prison.

  11. The interview was staggering.
    She clearly lied and used a bad memory not to recall her witness statements and actions. In her defence you could say trying to remember actions of 20 years ago isn’t easy but that’s why evidence is necessary and that’s provided in signed statements. Whether she read them or not before signing is not an issue because it’s a legally binding document. There’s enough evidence to not only to prove she was incompetent but she is guilty of contempt and should return to court to face a possible custodial sentence!
    The PMs have been dealt cruel cards from day one but seeing sentences behind bars will provide some faith in our legal system!

    1. Absolutely.

  12. David Bottomley avatar

    Rather late in the day I’ve only just seen the video of the session with Elaine Cottage . It’s is clear to me that either she had decided to derail the session and protect herself at every question ( I can’t remember, I don’t recognise that document etc etc etc) or she should never have been employed by the post office in any post which carried any responsibility.

  13. She is a liar and criminal. This is not dementia. This deceit, pure and simple. She needs to goto prison, along with the rest.

    1. I agree with you, I have been listening to all the witnesses in the enquiry and have been amazed and disgusted with the web of lies and deceit, and this woman is a vindictive deceitful liar and as you say should go to prison with all those who have deliberately done so much hurt and damage to the sun postmasters

  14. I loved how calm Jason Beer was. I especially loved his comment at the end of her testimony.when discussing a break. He suggested a slightly longer one so they could all reorient in time and space.

    1. The closing comment by Jason Beer would have been a big whoosh for this witness.

  15. My sister was Post Mistress (Kildrum, Cumbernauld) from 1982-2007 (when it was closed), she, her husband and my dad ran the shop, small family corner shop … loads of pensioners who relied on my sister to help them beyond the duties of a PM.

    I recall the anguish she and her staff went through when the books did not balance on a Wednesday; thankfully nothing to do with Horizon.

    I see my caring and sweet sister in every PM that has suffered, and to know the likes of this person at a whim could devastate lives… well … what can one say and do…

    They all knew the flaws in the system, all the f**rs knew from the Chief Exec to the investogators.
    I hope all the PM can find peace…

  16. Elaine is possibly related to Yootha Joyce from George and Mildred. Selective amnesia seems to be a gift. Also she says “I didn’t know there was an enquiry” etc etc – the inquiry is like a re-run of The Office, The fast show and Little Britain all rolled into one. And when they are introduced, the witnesses sound like they are appearing on ‘This is Your life’, then an episode of mastermind and sometimes Jason Beer plays the university challenge question. Totally hilarious when they say blankly “I don’t know”, “I can’t remember” or “I do not recall”. They all seem to pretend to be care home residents.

    1. A conspiracy of I can’t recalls and can’t remembers engineered by POL lawyers I would imagine.

  17. Was Elaine Cottam’s job just to sign documents? At every turn, the answer was “I wouldn’t have written it that, I might have signed it” or “that was drafted for me” or “the auditors did that” What was her actual role? What did the Post Office pay her for exactly? Does anyone know? She herself doesn’t seem to know

    1. Stephen Chicconni avatar
      Stephen Chicconni

      Beer KC must have realised immediately that he was questioning a block of cheese.

    2. Eileen Colebrook avatar
      Eileen Colebrook

      Have just watched the “performance” by Elaine Cottam. Agree with everything you’ve said and it’s terrifying that such ignorant and incompetent people have the power to wreck others’ lives. Don’t know how Jason Beer kept his cool. I just hope justice will prevail.

      1. I’m surprised that the judge didn’t intervene to give Cottam some “guidance”.

  18. I have yet to hear the background behind the death of a postmaster of the Edgware branch, found hanged after accusations he had been stealing money from the branch. His wife lost her hard working loving husband and her two girls some decades later are revealed the truth. How do you assess compensation for the loss of a love one under circumstances of corporate and legal negligence !!!

    1. Margaret Mcgiffen avatar
      Margaret Mcgiffen

      I just think the whole thing stinks and is typical of corporate companies having no compassion for hard working people. This family will never get their husband/father back but they will at least learn the truth behind it all and our government was complicit in all of this.

  19. Ive watch days of post office enquiry and find many saying they dont remember . I get its sometime ago but when asked certian things their memory returns such as when questioned about other post office or horizon employees

    1. It’s called dissembling and several witnesses so far have indulged in it quite a lot.

    2. Part of the plot seems to be that the PO Managers and Legal Advisors have suggested the implicated staff take undertake a Corporate Amnesia tactic. With all that we have discovered so far I think this very likely the case!

  20. Cottam is a type of slimy piece of work you find across many UK companies. Incompetent and dim promoted way beyond usefulness -but longevity and game playing preserves status / buffer to upper level management.
    Cottams i’m a brain dead what am I doing here lady tears is
    calculated to gain sympathy and used as a defence in aim to avoid responsibility. Some are questioning her mental capacity when she clearly remembered the husband of the 19 year old submaster she sacked claiming he was the guilty party.
    She is a venal amoral foot soldier who knowingly wrecked innocent people lives with prison suicide and early death.
    Cottam along with the Post Office / Fujitsu senior management and prosecuting law firms need to be prosecuted by the police under caution. Failure to prosecute will lead to further corporate corruption and lessoning belief in justice and
    democracy. The feeling of a two tier justice system is corrosive to public
    life and rule of law
    Cottams “performance” needs a rotten tomato award not medical review.

    1. Sad but so unfortunately true.

  21. Utterly staggered that Ms Cottam didn’t realise the seriousness of signing a witness statement supplied to a court in her name that was proven to be false/ fabricated. Good watch though!

    1. she is the perfect employee: stupid, uncouth, drone, and absolutely disinterested in the truth, and ego tripper.

      take note everyone accused of crimes in UK … if you don’t remember doing them, you’re in the clear.

      let’s hope Elaine gets prosecuted for not remembering just like her colleagues and victims at the post office for not being able to explain their ‘losses’

      1. I came here after starting to watch her appearance before the Inquiry to find out who she was and why she was called. It was totally summed up by her answer to a question:

        “Well, you can’t determine a person’s honesty from an interview can ya?”

        It was almost a Freudian Slip.

  22. Cottam had a solicitor help her to prepare for the enquiry. Ashmores? No doubt funded by POL, ultimately the U.K. tax payer.
    You see in her as I have with all the other POL and Fujitsu witnesses a remarkable lack of grey cells and not me Gov. A fine example of the Peter Principle promoting an idiot to a position of total incompetence. Do these species of homo sapiens have no empathy to the hundreds of genuine postmasters/mistresses whose lives have been destroyed? Never mind , their boss Vennells will lead them with Divine Retribution to an eternal life of unbearable heat and torture with her mate Lucifer.

  23. I worked for the Post Office Telecoms from 1978 until it became BT and in both organisations we had a few managers similar to Mrs Cottam, they had got there by a combination of seniority and favouritism.

    1. Elaine should be arrested for misleading the court. You should not be this stupid and responsible for line managing over 100 sub-postmasters.

      1. agree she is alot more switched on than she’s showing to the inquiry

    2. ” It turned out Beer had evidence of Cottam calling the Horizon Helpline third line support to explain various software problems on behalf of Julie Wolstenholme”.

      Third line support is usually the *actual software devt team*!!

  24. I have just watched and I’m amazed she could remember her own name and how to get home ! I have dealt with people with dementia and that is not a sign
    She is showing a complete lack of intelligence, I can imagine her showing up at a post office “morning girls, quick put the kettle on, and then none stop talking about nothing “
    How she ever got promoted to a manager is a mystery! She can’t even write a letter and knew nothing about her job !
    But enough of her when are the people at the top going to be called in front of the inquiry ?

  25. Having watched her testimony, I think it was the case that POL gave her a pre-written statement and told her to sign it. I doubt she read it (and indeed could have been dissuaded from reading it by words to the effect of “oh, just a formality, we need your signature here”). In fact, her role seems to have been negligible, insofar as the Contracts Manager wrote the dismissal letter, the auditors told her the accounts were wrong, she didn’t think for herself at all. I doubt she even read the call logs that she obtained in Feb 2001. A tragic example of the damage that can be done when someone operates above their intellectual ceiling.

  26. It’s odd that she has very clear recall about the husband of the post-mistress, enough to make allegations about him with no evidence. Crystal clear, those memories. My guess is that a full medical analysis will find no evidence of any dementia-like illness. Her protestations are more like an amdram version of the “I don’t recall” answers many other Post Office witnesses are giving.

    1. Exactly what i thought. Elaine’s memory loss disappeared when it was in her own interest.

      Even if the claim of never having seen these Call Logs is true, as a Manager, that only excabates her failure in the role.

      Another point in my head constantly as Elaine claimed she didnt remember, is the claimant and her husband will remember it only too well.

      1. Margaret Mcgiffen avatar
        Margaret Mcgiffen

        Those were my thought exactly. Trouble with lying you have to have a really good memory and she seemed to be economical with what was true and what wasn’t. If you have implicated yourself in such a travesty of justice just own it and accept what part you played in it. It would have gone a lot better for her had she said yes she was involved and was sorry she was pulled into the corruption of the PO.

  27. Could Elaine Cottam have dementia? Was there consideration that she was maybe not fit to give evidence?

    1. A large number of witnesses to the enquiry will probably be diagnosed with dementia shortly after the charges against them are laid.

      I predict that quite a few of them will make miraculous recoveries after it is decided they are unfit to stand trial because of the dementia.

  28. Seems unwise and counterproductive to me to use undiplomatic phrases like ‘ obtuse, thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetent’…. the wretched middle-management functionaries are partial victims , too, in massive institutional debacles like this….the slowness of the investigative media and press in this business is a scandal in itself

    1. Surely the point is to threaten this old witch with the stake until she snitiches on her boss and the legal dept that gave her the dishonest statement to sign.

      1. No point in focusing on the wretched middle-management PO employees ….how about focusing on the cynical law firms who must have realized they were onto a ‘ nice little earner’ after the first few dozen prosecutions when any open-minded investigator would have started suspecting the Horizon system was the real culprit

    2. “Thick-as-mince, malevolent, incompetent” appeared to be the ‘qualities’ required for promotion when I worked in a PO sorting office.

  29. As a public prosecutor for 30 years, before retirement, I was accustomed to seeing witness statements like the 2003 statement with which Ms Cottam seemed so completely unfamiliar. They tended to be assembled by in-house lawyers, based on their compendious but hearsay understanding of the features of a dispute, for use in some form of litigation. They were proffered to the police and could/should have been used with caution, as a basis for interview of the witness and development of a reliable statement. It was always obvious that the in-house document has been constructed with an agenda.

    Generally, the lawyer (or, more often, a paralegal) would invite the potential witness to produce a ‘warts and all’ story about the dispute and its ramifications. This ‘Proof of Evidence’ is a written summary of what a witness could say in evidence during a hearing but it contains information which might both help and hinder the litigation. The litigator’s skill is to construct a ‘Witness Statement’ which, ‘economical with the truth’, promotes the interests of the party which relies on it but is not manifestly dishonest or partial.

    Ms Cottam’s floundering seems to me to be symptomatic of her having adopted a Witness Statement presented to her for signature (with little incentive or opportunity for challenging its accuracy or completeness). From what I have seen and heard elsewhere, she was far from alone in feeling obliged a sign a document created by the Post Office’s legal department. Sadly, it implies a dubious concept of professional conduct within that office.

    1. Agreed it’s not in her language and analysis of call logs was clearly way over her head. Sign this and be a good soldier.

    2. Is she likely to have her collar felt?

    3. Very helpful insight!

    4. Thank you. Very useful insight. Makes the conduct of several of the witnesses clearer.

    5. Wow! So that would explain the false statement and two false affidavits produced by deponent DRC. I am not referring to POL but a different case entirely, relating to corporate sub-mortgage forgery and fraud. From the information you provided it would appear that the false DRC statement and affidavits were assembled by the Company’s in-house acting solicitor, ASW, who left the Company and later became a solicitor for Bond Pearce and Womble Bond Pearce.

      Steven Dilley, who helped POL ruin the lives of the Castleton family, was also a solicitor for Bond Pearce and is now is a partner with WBD. Again, no connection to the above mentioned case, but it does make me wonder if WBD is a school for scoundrels.

      1. Explains a lot. I had no idea Dilley and ASW had even a tenuous connection. Certainly both scoundrels.

  30. I was hoping that a commentator would pick up on this astonishing session – as you say, coinciding with yet another disclosure meltdown I wondered if it had got lost, but your writeup captures it very well as always.

    The magnificent Jason Beer KC I think for once only just managed to retain his professionalism, not to mention his sanity. Although after a while I did seriously wonder whether Ms Cottam, for whatever reason, lacked capacity to give evidence under oath and I half-expected Sir Wyn to intervene to suggest this might be the case and adjourn the session. Is there a process to screen inquiry witnesses for fitness to produce witness statements and give evidence in person?

  31. […] such a moment. There were two events. The first was the evidence of Elaine Cottam, eviscerated here by Nick Wallis as an “obtuse, thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetent”. She displayed the […]

  32. Edward John Draper avatar
    Edward John Draper

    Nick, An excellent resume of what happened on the day. If the police do not get invoved now there is certainly no justice in the UK. As others have commented the level of incompetence in POL(eg John Scott) is beyond belief.

    1. There is no justice in the UK when innocent ex-prisoners are released and, until very recently, had money deducted from compensation in order to cover their bed and board while incarcerated. Only a very devious state would consider this fair treatment.

      1. Whaaaaaaat? I know UK justice is played out on uneven playing fields so no point in being innocent unless you have deep pockets. But charging for bed and board, omg, what next? Does that mean next time I visit Devon I can book a b&b in Dartmoor? And if the food isn’t to my liking or the mattress is too hard can I complain to the governor? Is it any wonder Mr Bumble said the law is an ass.

  33. I watched Jason Coyne, Susanne Helliwell and Colin Lenton-Smith’s appearances earlier, and followed them with Cottam’s. I now need a stiff drink, or few. The abject.. whatever it is, of Mrs Cottam is at a level I’m unable to quite find words for. As always, the rigour and persistence of the Inquiry and Core Participants’ researchers, legal teams and QC’s is, as ever, laudible.

    I’m now going to go on and watch Jan Holmes’ appearance.

    @David Leaker – the police’s involvement is seemingly still limited to the investigations into Jenkins and Chambers. That limitation is becoming increasingly untenable.

    1. Should we assume the government has had words with top people in the police? Along the lines of here is a patch of long grass you could use, fellahs.

  34. While we all acknowledge that the PO was characterised by behaviour somewhere between negligent and criminal, I’ve been astonished at the level of detail and retention exhibited by witnesses to the inquiry, especially as many witnesses are of necessity no longer young — with a couple of exceptions whose memory lapses seemed to verge on the convenient. Cluelessness as described by Nick here is actually exceptional.

  35. […] was such a moment. There were two events. The first was the evidence of Elaine Cottam, eviscerated here by Nick Wallis as an “obtuse, thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetent”. She displayed the […]

  36. Thank you Nick. l was beginning to think that nobody else had picked up on how many PO witnesses had clearly been promoted way above the level of their ability (in management speak The Peter Principle).
    Ms Cottam also had a severe case of SMS (Selective Memory Syndrome).
    lf she is to be believed, her witness statement to the Blackpool Court in 2003 requires further investigation.

    1. The more I read about this the more I feel for the people on the receiving end of this injustice.
      Give all post office legal team a jail term to remind them of fair justice.
      Who is shielding Fujitsu from any blame
      Send all of them to jail for lying.

  37. I reiterate, why are the police not involved?

  38. Thanks Nick.
    I think a key thing was the call logs were said by Mrs Cottam to cover the period Jan to Nov and yet the ones included at appendix only covered 3 or 4 months of this period. Conveniently, this 3 or 4 months period didn’t include the calls made by Mrs Cottam and the acceptance by Fujitsu that there was a known bug.
    By the look of and performance of Mrs Cottam, it’s any interesting coincidence that questions were asked by someone named ‘Beer’.

  39. Re Elaine Cottage _ I watched this excrutuating session in real time. We’re it not relating to such serious matters it could be considered a comedy show. I did note from some of the documents displayed that Cottam’s rank was given as CM1. ( Counters Manager grade 1)This is a middle management rank senior to CM3 and CM2 and I am stunned that she reached such dizzy heights.

  40. I was a sub- postmaster for 20 years ( South Park PO Maidstone, closed down around three years after I sold ). I have to say that my Retail Line Managers , in general, were not the brightest and had little idea of running a sub post office. One in particular that springs to mind would come into my office and inspect all the various forms on display and take great delight in finding one that was out of date ! I challenged him at one point to spend a day with me to see what running a Sub PO was really like – unsurprisingly he declined my offer !
    I have bought and read your book and it seems that so many people representing Post Office Counters have a problem remembering things which, to me, sounds very dubious or , possibly, very convenient, for them.
    I sold in 2005 and it is probably the best thing I could have done but I am so sorry for the people that have suffered so much through no fault of there own and also so angry, on their behalf, that nobody has been held accountable for the injustices that they have suffered.
    Thank you for all that you have done on their behalf.

    Best wishes,

    Robert Cooper

  41. That was a painful watch.

    How many more ghost written witness statements were presented as evidence against sub postmasters I wonder.

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